[fushoku] Rakki Taishaku | A Twilit Toast (COMIC Anthurium 2022-04) [English] [kyotogrand] [Digital]

Posted on 17 August 2022, 08:31 by: kyotogrand

Uploader Comment

Sorry this took me so long! I was going through the wringer! Love y'all, honest!
Tell me, have you fine folks seen any good movies since I last posted?

{ Support the author by buying the magazine this story ran in! }
https://book.dmm.co.jp/detail/k568agotp00422/
{ or a copy of their first trade paperback! They deserve it! }
https://book.dmm.co.jp/detail/dmmmg_2458/

Posted on 17 August 2022, 08:50 by: Ferds30

tomboys are so cute and pure

Posted on 17 August 2022, 08:55 by: cybeast93

Keep up the good fight against depression man. This TL is amazing.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:30 by: Leriko

"The other TL was too much of a drag to let stand, though."
If you're referring to SDTL's translation, that's pretty fucked, dude. They did a faithful translation while it's clear you've taken some liberties to try and make the script more "entertaining". I don't need to explain why it's poor practice, right?

Last edited on 17 August 2022, 10:18.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:37 by: bigbro000

Still waiting for that Fushoku tankoubon translation though...
I've been watching good movies since the last time you posted. The most recent one is Everything Everywhere All At Once, and some older ones are Being There, Cinema Paradiso, and Big Trouble in Little China :)

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:48 by: kyotogrand

@Leriko Fine, I was being a little mean. The 'drag' comment though was more about the flow of the English used than anything else, to be fair.
But I'm still gonna push back on your point.
SDTLs did a literal translation but that doesn't make it inherently more faithful as a result - I got the sense reading the original Japanese story that it was written to be a little funny and a little odd. I think in that scenario having a little bit of fun with the script is entirely fine - I didn't exactly do it to excesses. If I was doing this with say a grounded, dramatic piece I concur it'd be inappropriate but this isn't that.

@bigbro000 lol I bit off a ton more than I could chew - Quartz Saint is helping me out with it right now but there's a ton of slow, painful editing work to be done still. You can message me on Discord and see some of the work I've done on it if you want.
I saw EEAAO too, back in May! Such a heater. I was grinning ear-to-ear the whole way.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:49 by: Ahegaliant

I think she sounds more like a zoomer in this TL take v.v

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:58 by: Mr_Person

Honestly not a massive fan of the zoomer speak, but it's still pretty good aye.

Glad to see you back man, hope you're feeling better.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 09:59 by: Keppijeesus

People making shitty localizations should be executed. The font choices were shitty too.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 10:05 by: @Inkblot

Alternate English version here.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 10:28 by: Leriko

@kyotogrand
Your "sense" is misguided, because translations are meant to be inherently faithful, even in ero-manga. People want the big-titties rough tomboy that speaks fairly masculine, not the Reddit-tier glorified zoomer you've portrayed her as because it's more "entertaining" or "fun"; in fact, right now you're no different from those game "translators" that put random bullshit in JRPGs or change characters because it'd be "boring or stiff" otherwise. People with decent reading comprehension can clearly see the differences behind the faithful translation, and what you've basically done to "localize" it. Good lord would the DLSite translation program roast you to hell and back for it if you tried this kind of crap there.
PS: if a script is "boring", it's not up to you to change it or decide it's boring. Let the original work speak for itself through a faithful translation.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 10:37 by: Echoleon

Please use an easier to read font my eyes started to hurt trying to read it.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 10:56 by: kyotogrand

@Leriko My takeaways from this story were wrong? Dude, have you even read this in Japanese? Do you wanna do that quickly?
Azuha doesn't exactly speak masculine in the other translation - she doesn't really have a distinct character voice there, in fact. Know where she does have that mannish voice? In the original, and right here.
Translation isn't just literalism, need I remind you? Pick some Japanese passages and break down how my interpretation's ontologically wrong if this is such a betrayal, I really dare you.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 11:20 by: Mr_Person

@kyotogrand

Look mate, I don't think I'd say that anything you wrote is flat-out wrong, but I do think you took a few too many liberties. I've read through the RAW, the girl is casual for sure, but she's not some urban zoomer, and the guy sounds really meek and stiff in the RAWs, which I don't really think you capture here. I wouldn't go as far as some people and call for your head aye, but this is a bit of a localizer move. Also while I can appreciate a good lettering, the cursive is a bit excessive and hard to read at some points, which I don't think really matters with like SFX or those bullshit sex-talk dialogue that mangakas like doing for some reason, but in normal conversation it's a bit jarring. Again, this is still pretty good for what it is, like I'm definitely not tryna say you don't know your Japanese or something, but while I do agree with putting a bit of yourself in your translation (god knows I do, making a translation a bit of my own is part of the reason I love translating), you gotta watch out to not go too far.

I honestly hope you're feeling better, depression sucks, and I can't imagine the feedback on your first TL back is helping, but keep at it man.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 11:25 by: Leriko

Okay, I'll do the two pages alone. Bubbles ordered in natural reading progression. By the way, you didn't even translate the title properly. It's "Lucky Toast", not "A Twilit Toast".

Page 1:
1. "Doesn't this make it four-zero?"
2. "Hehe~ What's up, Hisadacchi?"
3. "It's like you can't even do anything before my tech."
4. "That's because there's a handicap, and it's that you're making me play with one hand..."

Page 2:
1. "I'm getting bored of this; got anythin' else?"
2. "Maybe like a perverted game with beautiful girls in skimpy outfits?"
3. "I don't have it, that kinda game."
4. "Liar. You probably have a few."
5. "Ah, that's right."
6. "Can I borrow your shower?"
7. "If you're okay with it, use it as you like, but..."
8. "Seriously? Then I'll use it."
9. "And while we're here..."
10. "Let's get in together?"
11. "Eh!?"
12. "Joking, joking. You thought about it, though?"
13. "Cute as always, I see~"

It's not that hard. Whatever crap you did to the script is overly excessive, and anyone that can read Japanese knows that. By the way, miss tomboy does speak in a masculine manner...for a *girl*, that is. It's the stereotypical JK yankee, and yes, that is her character voice. Don't need to break anything down all things considered, either, as my literal translation exposes your crap "translation" as another shitty "localization". Finally, literal translations: people take the word "literal" at face value and the spite for them as meaning "literally translating the text as you would read it in the source language", but to a professional, a "literal translation" is literally translating each word individually regardless of context or grammar. Proper translations are literal and faithful in the sense that they are essentially 1:1 reproductions of the source language's script, except for cases where a cultural context or idiom cannot be translated, but those are far and few between (and don't you dare try to use the wOrD oRdEr argument; it's so fucking braindead). Of course, it's sometimes hard to translate the differences between casual and formal Japanese, but that's a skill issue. Literally.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 12:11 by: kyotogrand

@Leriko Alright!

Title: I did this off of the kanji. I recognized that it sounded like ラッキー but I opted not to use lucky because I couldn't make it fit so well with the rest of it. If I used Lucky Toast you'd be calling me out for ignoring the kanji meanings.
Page 1 - 1-3: I just made it sound like shit-talk. -cchi doesn't convey anything in English, so I amputated it. 2 is a funny Pitbull reference, oh no.
4: Nothing is lost by omitting the first clause.

Page 2 - 1, 6, 13: Identical.
2: I used "fighter" because I assumed she was talking about like, DoA. "One of them weirdo horny games" is a reasonable translation of ヘンタイっぽい.
3: Adding that afterwards doesn't sound natural in English, you'd say "I don't have that kind of game." "No, I do not" means the same thing when juxtaposed with the prior question.
4: "You SO do" is 100% more fitting than "probably" for 絶対.
5: 10, 11: Literally an inconsequential difference.
7: "Mi casa es su casa" means this. けど with no sentence afterwards isn't always the same as saying "but" and not elaborating.
8, 9: I used more colloquial language with the same meaning.
12. This is fair and I'll do better next time. Thank you.

I was talking about the other translation. I'm not disputing that she talks in a masculine manner. Your translation does not sound like a native English speaker talking if you read it aloud. Are you smoking crack? Do you think 我ながら should be translated as "although it's me" or "if I do say so myself"? Because the former is more literal. Translating the differences between Japanese speech registers a) is pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand (your gripes about what I've done here) and b) isn't even hard, since you can simply translate it to casual and formal English.

@Mr_Person I'll take this onboard. Don't take this as a meaningless boilerplate 'cause it isn't, I really will try to be more measured with my next release.
I appreciate you actually engaging in good-faith, lol. Keep at the good work too!

Posted on 17 August 2022, 13:45 by: Ownerer

Fuck translators who "translate" like this.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 15:44 by: asurast

whooaa, i think Mr_Person already give out the best about this.
So it's all good.
kyotogrand, nice to see you back and good work dealing with your depression man. It must be hard, so goodluck for the future. Keep up the good work.

Posted on 17 August 2022, 18:06 by: cutegyaru

@kyotogrand
Check your DMs!

edit: @Leriko
>Proper translations are literal and faithful in the sense that they are essentially 1:1 reproductions of the source language's script, except for cases where a cultural context or idiom cannot be translated, but those are far and few between
Absolutely incorrect. 1:1 TLs are what machines and complete amateurs do. It's also a surefire way to mistranslate, miss meaning and intent, and sound completely unnatural. That's not to say everything should be rewritten and sound ridiculous due to over-localization, but there's a nice middle between "jelly-filled doughnuts" and 1:1 TLs.

Last edited on 18 August 2022, 00:34.

Posted on 18 August 2022, 01:53 by: Daruna

itt people with no business talking about jp>en translation/localization talk about jp>en translation/localization

>user Leriko (link) protests against the gallery while providing their own incredibly stilted and lifeless localization, all while having nothing to show for themselves that they have any clue whatsoever as to what they're talking about

yeah the stuff in this gallery is "extra" as the kids put it, but is it wrong? no, it's not. i personally would not choose to do the things kyotogrand has done, but i very likely grew up in a very different area than kyotogrand did, and so hear the character's voice in my head in a very different manner.

>'Fuck translators who "translate" like this.'
>'Proper translations are literal and faithful in the sense that they are essentially 1:1 reproductions of the source language's script, except for cases where a cultural context or idiom cannot be translated'

I'd call myself a veteran in this space at this point in time, and guess what pal: I translate like this. You think the shit in my uploads is actually what the Japanese says 1:1? Tell me you don't have a clue about what you're talking about without actually saying so.

All translating involves localization. There are incorrect ways to translate, insofar as you fuck the translation up (errors, omissions that should not be omitted, etc), but there is no incorrect way to localize. You can DISAGREE with localization decisions, but they're not WRONG, and if you believe they're WRONG then you're headass as fuck.

Don't like how the localization was done? Read the source material in the source language or fuck off.

Posted on 18 August 2022, 03:17 by: ohjadatzieterlekruit

God I fucking hate American "translators".

Posted on 18 August 2022, 15:53 by: Jack Woods

Ok, I mean this as respectfully as I can, that cursive font sucks ass and is a bitch to read.

As per her dialogue, I will say having her talk like this heavily dates this doujin, the inherent issue with altering the dialogue to fit a current speaking pattern is in about 3-4 years most of this will look stupidly cringe inducing.

@Daruna i kind of have to rip the band-aid off her but you are factually wrong. There is an incorrect way to localize, the manga "I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend into a Girl" deliberately changed the story from a story about a cross dresser and his beautician best friend falling in love to said cross dresser now being transgendered which, without exception, changes the entire intent of the story and blatantly contradicts the authors intent.

Posted on 18 August 2022, 17:12 by: Daruna

the "I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend into a Girl" trans debacle is a shitshow, yes, but it's not an incorrect localization. Just like Brock calling onigiri "jelly donuts" in the ancient Pokemon dub isn't an incorrect localization.

Are both instances awful decisions? Yes.
Would I ever in my life make either of those decisions? No.
Are there perfectly valid reasons to make those decisions? Yes.

In 4Kids's case (or whoever the fuck did that dub), with Brock, the idea was to make it seem like the show was made in an American setting, because the demographic watching the show was like 8 year old kids who probably have never heard the word onigiri in their life, let alone even know Japan exists. The changes were made because they were playing to their main demographic.

In that manga's case, as much as you and I hate to admit it, hamfisted trans shit is becoming far more mainstream, even expected in situations like this. The idea behind what happened here is the very same idea that happened with the above 4Kids example: The changes were made by those involved in order to meet what they believed was demographic expectations. Whether or not that belief is valid is another issue entirely.

Staff at publications rarely, if ever, have direct access to the original artist/writer for things like a manga equivalent to film dailies, so things like deviating from the artist's original vision can and will happen. Always. No matter what. Not to mention the fact that, 9 times out of 10, the original artist cannot understand the translated script by virtue of being unable to speak English, or whatever other language the work is being translated into - they are incapable of understanding cultural references, idioms, tone, etc. in another language just as much as anyone else. "Blatantly contradicting the author's intent" is a moot point and comes hand in hand with translating across languages with vastly different cultures. Translators are only human, we can't read minds. We are interpreters. You will only ever get the author's original intent by reading the author's own words, in their own language.

Am I defending the creative decisions that went on at either company for either of these examples? No, I am not. Again, I would never do what they decided to do. I am, however, pushing back against the dumb shit being said in this thread re: "correct" versus "incorrect" because anyone who says this gallery is done wrong because of the creative writing decisions is a fucking idiot and needs to be exposed as such.

Posted on 18 August 2022, 18:33 by: Jack Woods

@Daruma, there is certainly room for discourse in this topic, but I request you understand that once a popular consensus is developed i.e a disdain for the use of grammar that comes off like someone decided "hello fellow kids" was a fine way to write a script, there will inevitably be those that claim that it is the incorrect way to translate.

While that may not be factually correct, inevitably mass consensus will dictate that it is. Quite a few doujins on here have been like this as a serious translation and every time people lambasted them because they read like a reddit/twitard/tumblr cringy shitpost at best or have "punched up the dialogue" so badly that it becomes incomprehensible at worst.

[Musashimaru] Houkago Threesome! Is another example of this kind of thing happening and not may people took that kindly either.

A lot of people here strongly dislike when dialogue isn't reasonably close, as to avoid limiting the intent of the artwork. Hell not using the right Font makes people irate on this site.

[Urase Shioji] A Usual Day At The Witch's House | Youjokan no Nichijou Ch. 1 [Suspicious Edition] [English] is an example of why being picky about Fonts is also a thing here.

Posted on 20 August 2022, 10:29 by: random pervert

Shit translation didn't finish reading. She just sounds like a mix of inbred hillbilly and ghetto trash. Waste of time.
Might as well be a rewrite.

Posted on 20 August 2022, 19:37 by: DiroMustang

Honestly if you all weren't so terminally online you'd see that some people do speak like this.
You all just too used to proper internet grammar.

Really like the translation, hope the complains don't discourage the poster but the font were a tad bit hard to read.

Posted on 21 August 2022, 11:01 by: HorseMan00

The translation was so cringeworthy I literally lost my boner. The effort is appreciated but Christ almighty this was bad.

Posted on 23 August 2022, 01:58 by: zxczxcasdasd

You did your best, bro.

Posted on 08 September 2022, 18:59 by: Fuckhat

This is more of a snarky ironic rewrite than a translation.

Posted on 08 October 2022, 07:40 by: 2b or not 2b

Ugh, the cursive font is soooo bad.
Also, reading through the comments. lol. I get why people are upset. I'm with some liberties with localization, but this was cringy.
It's not even zoomer speak. It's what millenials think zoomers sound like.

Posted on 29 June 2023, 02:38 by: huolonafssadasdas

Suffering from depression and rewriting quality doujins to be filled with ironic zoomer talk? I'm shocked.

Posted:	2022-08-17 08:31
Parent:	None
Visible:	Yes
Language:	English TR
File Size:	44.89 MiB
Length:	41 pages
Favorited:	1383 times

language:	english translated
artist:	fushoku
male:	condom sole male virginity
female:	hairy painted nails ponytail sole female sweating tomboy
other:	mosaic censorship

Rating:		305
Average: 4.39

[fushoku] Rakki Taishaku | A Twilit Toast (COMIC Anthurium 2022-04) [English] [kyotogrand] [Digital]

[腐蝕] 落暉対酌 (COMIC アンスリウム 2022年4月号) [英訳] [DL版]